Episode 4: An Homage to Seinfeld?
Note: Once again, I watched the episode twice before writing this review. The first time is to get general impressions, the second time is to take detailed notes and hopefully pick up on things I may have missed on the first watch. Remember – I suffered for you. Non-spoiler impressions at the top – full spoiler review after the warning.
Impressions: Absolutely nothing happened in this episode. (Apologies to Wade.) You can safely skip it if you want to.
****SPOILERS****
I’m very frustrated after this episode. I have tried very hard to keep an open mind about this series, and there’s an awful lot that I do like about the series as a whole. This is the first episode that I’ve actually been bored with, and caught myself giving advice to the villains during the runtime. Don’t believe me? Here’s a sampling of some choice notes that I wrote down on my second viewing: “Torture her and be done with it.” “Torture! Yay!” “Tala is really irritating me.” “I hate the fifth brother.” “Nope – still hate him.” To be fair, there are still a couple of gags that I kind of like, but in a way this episode commits the worst kind of sin. It wasted my time.
So – with those notes out of the way, let’s pick up where we left off.
The episode begins with Ben being carried on a stretcher. He groans a lot. Too much, really. Tala whispers reassuring things. There is more groaning. Eventually, Ben is loaded into a bacta tank. The scene is juxtaposed between Ben in his Bacta Tank, and Vader in his. They both twitch and shudder, suffering from their respective emotions. Ben has had enough of the tank and he comes up for air – Tala tells him he hasn’t been in the tank long enough to heal, and Ben asks her “Where’s Leia?” We move to the Fortress Inquisitorious, where Leia is being kept in an holding room. Reva enters. There is much threatening and sassiness. Reva tells Leia that Ben is dead and that nobody is coming for her. Ben is now out of the bacta tank. He is introduced to a new character. I couldn’t hear his name very clearly, but I believe it was “Roken”. Roken tells Ben that he won’t help him. He’s risking too much, jeapoardizing the path that he has built for Jedi survivors. Ben tells him that he has no idea what the Empire can do. Roken tells Ben that he once had a wife who had abilities, and he knows very well what the Empire can do. He then decides to help after all. It is a very quick turnaround.
A plan is hatched to try and use Talas identity as cover to infiltrate Nur (the Inquisitors moon), and sneak Ben into the fortress. There is a guy named Wade there. The plan raises many questions. The characters mention that Nur has no shield. Another character responds “That’s because nobody would be stupid enough to attack them.”
Listen – I know we need a way to get into the fortress, and I know it’s a fantasy movie – but THIS IS NOT HOW SECURITY WORKS. It’s as bad as an imperial security system that checks to see if you have a face, and gives you access if you do. NOTHING says “you would have to be stupid to attack this” like the freakin’ Death Stars, and THEY BOTH HAD SHIELDS. One would assume that Nur is at least defended by a fleet presence, but this isn’t addressed. I guess they’re relying on Tala’s clearance, which should definitely be revoked by now.
On the way in, Ben practices moving objects with the force. He’s rusty, and Tala offers some trite advice.
Obi-Wan: I’ll be alright.
Tala: Your body’s not the only thing that needs to heal, Ben. The past is a hard thing to forget, and you just need time – that’s all. (I guess 10 years isn’t quite long enough – I’m sure the next 60 minutes should do the trick.)
Obi-Wan: Some things can’t be forgotten.
Tala: You care about Leia.
Obi-Wan: <nods>
Tala: Then you’re going to have to try. We’re almost there.
Unbelievable. This is the quality of writing that we’re dealing with? I so much wanted Obi-Wan to say “Do or do not, there is no try”, but nope.
So glad Tala is here to help. I have decided I hate her. Reva is back to harassing Leia. She wants to know where the path leads. She does all the standard villainous posturing – “just tell us what we want to know, and we’ll let you go.” Leia asks how Ben died, and Reva tells her that he burned to death. Leia tells Reva that she doesn’t know anything about a Path, and Reva says “Well let’s think a little bit harder, shall we?” This is where my note “Just torture her and be done with it” came from. I do not believe that this inquisitor would be wasting time jousting with a 10 year old girl. There is only so much suspension of disbelief that can be maintained, and this episode has exhausted my patience.
Tala is now inside the Fortress. She attempts to get past a security checkpoint, and is stopped by an ISB officer. He demands her code cylinder, and refuses to allow her to pass, because she is in a sector where she has no jurisdiction. Tala pulls rank, and claims to have secret information for the Grand Inquisitor. The guard reluctantly allows her to pass. This scene is both good AND bad. On the one-hand – no security officer worth his salt would allow a social engineering tactic to bypass a valid security check. On the other hand – the Empire is a corrupt system which leads from the top town, and junior officers naturally fear superior officers and punishment. I figure this scene breaks even – it does raise a question, though – is the fact that the Grand Inquisitor is “dead” not circulated throughout the Fortress Inquisitorius? I would’ve expected this to be a red flag.
Tala reaches a security teminal and opens an underwater access hatch for Ben. He now infiltrates the fortress. We return to Reva and Leia. Reva finally attempts to read Leias thoughts, and Leia resists the mind probe. THIS scene actually made me happy – it calls back to Episode IV and her resistance to the mind probe there. If you’ve never heard the Star Wars audio drama, I suggest that you look it up – in it, the mind probe scene is explicitly shown, and also explains the training she received to resist such interrogation methods. Score one for the episode!
Unfortunately, we’re back to banal diagloue – “The braver you seem, the more afraid you are.” This makes about as much sense as “The Jedi Hunt themselves.” Lola is captured. Ben sneaks around a lot, distracting troopers and trying to figure out where Leia is. Leia finally tells Reva that she will tell her where the path is – but she has to tell her father first, since “they’re all on the same side.” Reva loses patience here, and decides to finally torture her.
“Torture – Yay!”
This could have been an opportunity for Leia to tell Reva that they were on Dantooine, but that may have been one member-berry too far. Ben makes his way to a secure sector – here he finds the one interesting thing in the episode. A tomb, holding the bodies of dozens of Jedi that the Inquisitors have captured since Order 66 (including what looks like Tera Senube). Their bodies are held in stasis – this is callback to Rebels, where Kanaan was drawn in by the body of Luminara Unduli. It’s unclear how the stasis works – this isn’t carbonite, but something else. I suspect they’re held both for the purposes of luring other Jedi to their doom, and possibly for genetic material for cloning experiments. After seeing a youngling in stasis, Ben has seen enough – he calls Tala and tells her he needs a distraction. As the torture device is about to be turned on Leia, an aide arrives to interrupt Reva and tell her that she is needed urgently. Tala’s distraction is to tell Reva that she is a spy, and that the Path that Reva is searching for lead through Florim. Reva suspects that Tala is lying.
Back in the torture chamber, the power cuts. A lightsaber blazes to life, and two stormtroopers are cut down. Apparently their nightvision wasn’t working that day. Leia is rescued, and she and Ben begin making their escape. Reva believes that Tala is a spy, but isn’t sure if she’s a spy for the Rebels, or for the Empire. She isn’t buying Tala’s story. As she ponders this, a security droid catches Ben and Leia sneaking down the halls. An alarm is sounded. Strangely, Reva doesn’t kill Tala immediately.
Both she and the audience are disappointed.
As Reva goes to find Ben, there is more action hero nonsense with Tala. This is ridiculous. There are two armed and armored stormtroopers who already have her in custody, but somehow Tala manages to wrest one of their blasters away and kill both.
<sigh>
Ben is attacked on two sides by stormtroopers and droids. Finally, we see some confident lightsaber usage! One deflected bolt unfortunately hits an underwater window, and spiderweb cracks appear. Ben uses the Force to try and hold the window together and the water at bay. Tala arrives and all three escape as the window shatters and water floods in. They wisely don’t show this very clearly – no effect could believably render this. We next see Ben pulling the “3 monkeys in a jacket” gag to sneak Leia through the landing bay. This scene actually did make me laugh – this is the kind of goofiness that I think DOES belongs in Star Wars.
The fifth brother strides through the hanger and whispers menacingly, as per usual. I hate him. Then Reva shows up, and declares that Tala is a traitor. As a confrontation begins, the T-47s from Roken arrive to perform a rescue. Wade – that guy from earlier – dies. It is supposed to be moving.
Ben, Leia, and Tala somehow all fit in the gunners seat of the surviving T-47, and they escape without incident. Vader arrives to punish Reva, and this scene should not exist. This is the “emotional” scene we were warned about, and it very much has shades of Kylo Vader. As Vader is choking Reva, the Fifth Brother smiles. Maybe I don’t hate him so much, after all? Reva croaks out that she has placed a tracker on Kenobi, and wherever he goes, it will go. This saves her life. The Fifth Brother whines to Vader. “It’s her fault! She wrecked the fortress!” Nope – I still hate him.
We cut back to the escape vehicle Ben and company are using. The surviving T-47 pilot shows off her very sad face. Finally – it is revealed that Lola is the tracker. She’s EVIIIIILLLL now. We mercifully cut to end credits. I really did not want to tear this episode apart. I wanted to like it. I have mostly been enjoying this series, but this episode both bored me and insulted my intelligence. Am I being nitpicky? Absolutely. But I’ve extended this series an awful lot of good will, and it is now taking it for granted. This episode suffers from what much of Disney Star Wars suffers from – filler. The only thing that happened in this episode was that Leia was “rescued”. Otherwise, we’re right where we left off last episode.
There are only two episodes left in this show. They’d better make them count. As far as I’m concerned, this was the worst episode of the season, so far.
For all the latest news and reviews that should be fun, keep reading That Park Place! As always, drop a comment down below, and make sure to click on Lorn’s author page to see more articles just like this one!
What an awful screed. Lorn, this “(almost) everything is a flaw” approach to reviewing media is worthless and utterly repellent, because it can be applied to anything. Let me demonstrate:
A New Hope:
“Why wouldn’t the gunner shoot down the pod carrying the droids? Because there’s no life forms? Have they ever heard of droids? Why not just destroy it, you lose nothing. Unbelievable.”
“Don’t run into a hallway full of blaster fire, you stupid droid, you are going to get hit! There’s no way both C3P0 AND R2D2 get that lucky. Just for a stupid gag.”
“I can’t believe Luke looked down the business end of a lightsaber.”
“How does Greedo miss a point-blank shot? Was he firing at Han or Reed Richards?”
Get it? There’s no end. I can keep going with ANH or move on to ESB and ROTJ. You can choose whatever you want to lose patience with, whether because it breaks immersion, or doesn’t make sense, or whatever. There’s no standard, just pick something to fixate on and fume; your first complaint is Ben groaning too much. If you’re already convinced it’s terrible before you watch it, you’ll not only find plenty of flaws yourself, but eat up when other people make a show of it. Case in point: MauLer’s EFAP show on YouTube. Even legitimate criticisms are invalidated by this wash of self-inflicted anguish and fury.
You sound like you’ve been listening to a lot of Fandom Menace YouTubers since around 2018 or so. These arbitrary criticisms sound like I’m reading a transcript of a Critical Drinker video. If I’m right, then stop letting these YTers tell you what to think or how to feel. They let what used to be a justified outcry turn into either a pessimistic circlejerk bubble or a grift. Continuing to listen to them will rob you of any legit enjoyment you can EVER get from Star Wars, or any other show you’re told is irredeemably terrible because X Y and Z. They’re simply wrong, and if you think this show is as bad as or worse than The Last Jedi or something hyperbolic like that, then you’re mislead. I feel bad you couldn’t enjoy Kenobi whipping out the lightsaber and being the daring hero we remember, or the way Leia and Reva played off each other, or how Vader stormed into the room to choke Reva to death. I have to laugh when you said this episode is “boring” and “nothing happens”. Are you Cameron Fry from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? You’re not dying, you just can’t seem to see anything good today.
It’s a shame. This is not a fandom I want to be a part of. Being a fan shouldn’t be about endlessly finding fault and never being satisfied. “Perfect”–whatever that means to you–is the enemy of the good.
You at least enjoyed the fact that Leia resisted the mind probe at least, and gave Tala infiltrating the base some slack. But if this is all you can appreciate from the episode, then I think it’s highly likely you won’t be satisfied with whatever comes next. But after I watched this episode tonight, and despite the echo chamber on here and on YouTube, I’m sure I will.
TL;DR this is an embarrassing review. Shockingly sad and disappointing. “No shield on the base”, “Reva doesn’t kill Tala”, “Tala beats up the Stormtroopers.” None of these are worth putting the blinders on so all you see, all you get, all you give is relentless discontent.
Feel better?
With all due respect, I would ask that you not put words in my mouth, nor make assumptions that the words that come out of my mouth are not my own.
My last article was all about trying to bridge the divide between all Star Wars fans, and I suspect my next article that I’m planning will probably be much more to your liking. If you’re here and commenting, I take it on faith that you’re a Star Wars fan who is operating in good faith. Please extend me the same courtesy.
With regard to your comments:
We could go round and round about subjectivity, and have in other discussions. Trying to take subjectivity out of it for a moment, Star Wars does have a built-in mechanism to deal with the example nitpicks that you pulled out of A New Hope.
The reason that I wouldn’t nitpick about the Imperials not shooting down an escape pod, or Threepio or R2 running down a hallway into blasterfire, etc, is because in the mythological sense, the Force wills that no harm come to them. They are agents of fate.
You can make a subjective argument that the same could be applied to the situations in Kenobi, but then you have to have the payoff to justify agents of fate intervening. That’s what was missing in this episode for me. Leia is rescued, yes – but did anything actually change? Are all of the major players still alive? Are Kenobi and Leia still being hunted by the same people they’ve been hunted by this entire time?
I think arguably the most interesting thing that happened in this episode was the discovery of the Jedi bodies in stasis, but this is also not new information. It’s a reminder of another scene from another show, which acts as an advertisement for something that *may* be important (or not) later.
The MCU made a successful formula of this for quite some time – but if you use the “oooh, here’s a plot thread that will be important later” too many times, it stops being tantalizing and it becomes an irritant.
Rest assured, my opinions are not based on other reviewers or commentators. I had read no reviews nor read any commentary prior to watching the episode. In spite of some of the flaws I’ve pointed out in the previous episodes, I would say that up until this episode, I’ve enjoyed more than I’ve disliked. I think it’s miles ahead of what was done in the Book of Boba Fett.
I’m not told what to think or feel – I’m just calling this episode the way I (personally) saw it. I don’t think Obi-Wan is worse than the Last Jedi (you’d have to work pretty hard to reach those depths) – and I did mention that we were finally seeing some confident lightsaber action.
My complaint is solely based on the fact that I feel nothing of consequence happened in this episode – to me, it felt like padding.
One positive I can give is that I feel the interior of the Fortress looked great. I’m not sure how much is accomplished through set design and how much is the volume – but visually, I had no complaints.
Finally, I agree with you – being a fan shouldn’t be about finding fault and never being satisfied. It also doesn’t mean “eating whatever you’re given and liking it.” When I like something, I’ll be happy to say so. When I don’t like something, it’s my right to say so as well. That has nothing to do with your ability to enjoy it. At the end of the day, we’re both the target audience, and we get to offer feedback.
It’s possible I won’t enjoy what comes next, but I’m still keeping an open mind. This show hasn’t done anything yet that has made me hate it – I hope you understand that some of the commentary up above was intended as comedic exaggeration, but this episode really did irritate me and I hope it finds its footing in the next episode.
And like I said – keep an eye out for my next article. I have a feeling it will be more up your alley.
t. Lucasfilm’s strongest soldier
Kinda feeling like Raiden here in case it makes you feel better.
I think I may have mentioned it in my previous article, but it may have been a comment – I don’t remember off the cuff – but my initial impression of The Last Jedi wasn’t immediately awful. I appreciated the fact that a “bold” movie had been made, and I liked the scene of Kylos betrayal of Snoke – right up until he actually killed Snoke. I was not happy that they killed Luke, but I wasn’t completely hating on the movie. I had misgivings, but I trusted that there was a plan, and spent most of the next 3 years trying to convince myself that they had everything figured out.
It wasn’t until I realized they were going to bring Palpatine back and put Death Star lasers on Star Destroyers that my opinion finally turned, and I realized they had really put this whole trilogy together ad hoc, without a plan.
Do I think Kenobi is anywhere near that bad? No, of course not. I think it’s an uneven show that could still be fairly good, but I don’t think it will end up being as good as it had the potential to be. I think part of why I’m so annoyed is that I don’t think Obi-Wan Kenobi – the show that fans really have been waiting for for the last 20 years – should accept ANY middling content. Is that a high standard? It absolutely is, and if the show is working for you and you have no objections, I think that’s great. I don’t think most people are going to feel that way though, and I think that’s a shame.
If I had to rank the show with the other Disney + Star Wars live action shows, I’d put Obi-Wan Kenobi behind The Mandalorian, but ahead of The Book of Boba Fett.
The danger here isn’t that Obi-Wan Kenobi is close to as bad or worse than The Last Jedi. It’s that a bad Boba Fett show does not have the danger of derailing Star Wars. A bad Obi-Wan Kenobi does – not because it’s the worst thing ever, but because patience has run out. Lucasfilm/Disney have been given chance after chance after chance – they can’t afford to take their audience for granted anymore.
I do think it’s interesting that our positions on episodes 3 and 4 are fundamentally reversed. I went into episode 3 feeling pretty nervous and was surprised to find that I really enjoyed it. This put me on the opposite end of most, I think. After the high of that episode, I went into episode 4 expecting something great, and left feeling disappointed and irritated.
As for what needed to happen to make me feel differently about Episode 4 – my answer is kind of complicated, because what I DID like about the episode had more to do with the location of the episode than anything else. I really like the Fortress Inquisitorious, and I’m always happy to see more of it. This is part of why I liked the scene where they showed Obi-Wans discovery of the “tomb” – I just hope they actually DO something with it.
But I don’t think just exploring a location can give me what I needed for this episode. The sadly disappointing answer (which may be controversial) is that I think the best thing that could’ve happened for this episode was to not have it at all. I’m not saying this part in jest – what I mean is that, this epsiode felt to me like maybe they didn’t really have six episodes worth of content. It could be that this has to do with the conversion of the concept from a movie to a series, but since the originally drafts were scrapped and rewritten, it’s hard to say that’s the case.
I guess if you had to have six episodes, maybe instead of spending time at the Fortress, it would’ve been better to have spent time on Jabiim. Having Kenobi see what the Path offers helps on his road to redemption, and would’ve given the other characters some time to breathe and for the audience to bond. I think focusing on Wades death was just weird.
The problem with trying to take that time narratively is that it leaves Leia hanging out there in peril for too long.
The question about the Death Star rescue is an interesting one because I think the main purpose it serves is not in the rescue of Leia, but in the death of Obi-Wan. (Granted, you DO have to rescue Leia – she is the heart and soul of the rebellion, and a capable leader that people rally behind) – but the rescue served a useful purpose in that Obi-Wan had served his narrative purpose in framing the galaxy for Luke and the audience, and his death cemented Lukes commitment to the cause.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that none of the regulars don’t care what you have to say. I think a lot of people read and don’t comment. My goal with my last article (and my next one) is to try and look at things from a different point of view, and to foster discussion. I don’t want an echo-chamber – I want discussion and debate like I remember from the old days. In that spirit, I hope you’ll stick around and continue to contribute!
Thanks for your response. You’ve said a lot of interesting things and gave me more to work with.
It turns out we had the same feelings seeing TLJ in theatres. What set me on the warpath to join the Rebellion, as it were, was a particular iMDB review that was the first to articulate what these movies were and what they were doing, convincing me that it didn’t matter what they had planned next. Nothing was worth what it was taking then to get there. I was right to not agree with how they killed Luke, and I was right to walk out TFA thinking it was a lame and pretty woke copy of ANH made by a fanboy hack who hated the Prequels. And when Mark Hamill started sounding the warning bells–or rather looking back in hindsight–I knew it was more than just me.
From there, it reached a point with me personally, and with the Fandom Menace at large, that nothing would be tolerated from Lucasfilm anymore. No social media manipulation or colluding with news sites to cancel critics; no more Sequel trilogy, diversity quotas, lore-breaking, or bad writing in general; and no more Kathleen Kennedy, Pablo Hidalgo, or the Story Group at Lucasfilm. Nothing less than throwing out everything and everyone since the 2012 buyout would be acceptable, but it also went past just the realm of being a Star Wars nerd. It became about politics. It became about the culture war: another iteration of GamerGate, where the goal wasn’t just to get the content and storytelling right, but also to push the Overton window back in the other direction, or look forward to watching them burn down in failure.
The problem I’m seeing here now is that attitude is unreasonable. These shifts aren’t just going to happen when we want them to or by force. I think the same principle applies to producing media, which brings me to Obi-Wan and the feelings you and others have expressed towards the show.
I don’t think it can be understated how much this situation reflects the attitude towards the Prequels, which still persist to this day albeit much diminished. The reason I say this is because I think they share the same fundamental problem: they are misunderstood and underappreciated. Like George said about the Prequels, there is simply more there than just what’s on the surface. It’s like poetry, it rhymes, as the often memed quote goes. It’s crucial as an adult, as opposed to a child or a casual-/non-fan, to appreciate this in order to appreciate the Prequels, and to appreciate George as a filmmaker and Star Wars as his creation. I think we’re seeing that the show follows the same kind of design.
So to appreciate this, you do have to let go idea that you could make better productions or write better stories. Again, I’m not trying to put words into your mouth, but when you say you wish this show lived up to its potential, that’s what I’m referring to: the rough ideal show you have in your head filled with the scenes you want. It’s not your story. Fans do have a say in what they do or don’t want to see, but they’re not the writers or directors. If they want to be, then I’d say it’s put up or shut up time. There are plenty of fan films or fan fictions out there, but there’s always room for one more.
The other thing worth considering here, when talking about imperfections and flaws, is the precarious situation both Star Wars and Disney/Lucasfilm are in. Disney is in massive debt, and WDWPro is right: they need to do something to stop the bleeding, ASAP. They also can’t–or shouldn’t–spend as much money as they might like for current or future productions. This could mean, in general, not getting everything you want in something like Kenobi, or some props or set pieces looking cheap (looking at you Grand Inquisitor). I’m sure no one is more upset about this than the showrunners and directors themselves, despite the brave face they may put on in front of the camera.
This is besides internal interference from opposing factions or individuals, which the people making the show, or even somebody as high as Chapek, can’t or have good reason not to do what would be most convenient: fire them right now. But if you or anybody writing for this site are waiting for something public to happen: Chapek just fired Peter Rice. Peter Rice was the creative head of TV content for Disney. The elite of Hollywood wanted him to take Chapek’s place at Disney, and it was under his watch that the failed Florida bill walkouts and the leaked Reimagine Tomorrow meeting happened: https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/peter-rice-dana-walden-disney-content-chief-out-1235289315/
It is a shame most of the Fandom Menace doesn’t appreciate the show. But that’s an opportunity to be a counterpoint to the popular narrative in that space. They’re not on the right side of this issue anymore, as much as I might sympathize or agree with them. I don’t think they represent the majority of fans who are watching Disney+ and liking what they see, much to their chagrin. I’ve seen EFAP become snooty and bitterly resentful toward anybody that likes anything from The Mandalorian to Obi-Wan, while they laugh and joke at nearly every scene. Anyone who likes this stuff are babies gawking at key jangling, and the other YTers who who live reactions like Eric Butts prove then right. It’s a good time, but not as good as enjoying and appreciating good Star Wars when it comes around.
I can’t really say much about how either of us feels about episodes 3 and 4 except to say I had no expectations going into 3 other than general ones about Obi-Wan and Vader interacting. Looking back, I really liked the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan, short as it was. Sadly your answer about what would’ve made ep4 worthwhile for you wasn’t helpful at all, so I’ll leave it at that, but your comment about Wade and then about the Death Star rescue from ANH is interesting. Going back to the point I made earlier about how the episodes seem to parallel events in each of the original films (Ep I to IV so far), I think you accidentally answered your own question about Wade’s death. His death parallels Obi-Wan’s death in ANH. He’s not a Jedi or a major character, but his sacrifice gave cover for their escape. Can’t kill Obi-Wan or Leia yet, no one but the Path could help them, and it adds some more weight and pathos to what would otherwise have been an uneventful escape, so there you go.
Lastly, you’re right that most people probably read and don’t comment, same as on YouTube. That’s part of the reason why I think the idea that the audience doesn’t like Kenobi is mistaken. Right now we’re listening to a loud voice of discontent–a familiar one from the past 4 years–but I don’t think they represent the general audience or the fanbase anymore. Kamran suspected this as well, and warned on his Patreon that the YT channels who continue acting like this now will see their audience dwindle. There’s always going to be a crowd of haters who enjoy themselves and don’t care what anybody thinks, but given their disposition, they’re not going to be what drives successful media. Anyways, perhaps I’ll stick around a while longer and hear what you’ve got to say. Thanks again.
This is exactly the kind of discussion that I want to foster!
It’s clear to me from your first couple of paragraphs that I think my next article might be what you’re looking for. (Maybe not, but I’m sure it will at least generate discussion.) I haven’t started writing it yet, but I have a pretty solid idea of what I want to write and how I want to frame the argument – just need to find the time to sit down and crank it out.
My position with modern Star Wars is complicated. The appeal of the old EU was that I could take a position that if they put it out, it happened – even if I didn’t like it. They were trying to make things fit, and they gave me enough quality content that I could take the bad with the good. Modern Star Wars forces me to pick and choose, and that causes some cognitive dissonance. I’m trying to fit the pieces I like with the pieces that came before and if you squint it can kinda-sorta-work but not really.
In a way, I think that’s what the story group is trying to encourage people to do – Matt Martin pretty much explicitly stated such. I think this leads to division, even though that may not be the intention. We want this to be like a real history, even though it’s all made up. When things don’t mesh or contradict other things, it rubs wrong somehow and leads to partisan divides.
I see your comments about the Overton window, and I’d like to comment on them here, but I think some of that is probably better served in the article that I want to write, so I hope you’ll have patience with me there.
What I will say is that when I write a view, I’m speaking for myself and ONLY myself. I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind, or tell you what you should think. It’s a snapshot in time of how I felt when I watched it, and I reserve the right to change my mind down the road. I don’t think it’s fair to judge the series until I’ve seen all of it, so I’ll render my final judgement then.
That said, it could go either way. I could decide that I like it, or I could decide that I hate it – but I promise I’ll tell you what I think, and it’s not going to be based on what somebody else says.
My only requirement going into this series was that A) Ben be tortured by his past and B) the focus of the show HAD to be on Obi-Wan and Vader.
I think where some critics of the show are going wrong (and I think this is what you’ve been leaning into) is being so upset that Obi-Wan has been weak and running away. These are the folks that are saying that Obi-Wan is the new “The Last Jedi.” I think lots of people wanted him in Jedi-fighting shape after the first episode, and I think that would be ridiculous. This is a guy who has lost a LOT, and blames himself for the fall of the entire Jedi Order – an order that existed for over 1,000 generations. That’s a lot to bear on ones shoulders – I wanted Ben TORTURED by guilt and fear, and I have gotten that in the show. Part of the reason you want this is because it makes it so much more satisfying when Obi-Wan finds his faith again.
One thing that I didn’t do in my review last night was focus enough on his use of the lightsaber when deflecting bolts from stormtroopers and fending off droids. I did mention that he was finally showing confidence, but there was one thing in this scene that did stand out to me that I didn’t mention – when the last stormtrooper fell, he gave his lightsaber a twirl and held a pose that we haven’t seen since the prequels. This was the start of Obi-Wans long climb back uphill, and it was great to see – I should have made a bigger deal out of it.
What I don’t feel I’ve gotten out of the show is the singular focus that I think it needed. I’m willing (reluctantly) to go along with the Leia plot because I know we need to find SOME way to get Ben off Tatooine – but if this show is going to succeed, Obi-Wan and Vader have to be at the center of it. I feel there is some legitimate criticism that Obi-Wan is in danger of becoming a passenger in his own show. Some of this is acceptable because he has been a broken man, but they pushed it almost too far – I think we should’ve seen the climb begin sooner.
This last episode felt more to me like the Tala show than the Obi-Wan show, and the sheer number of stormtroopers that she took out really did make me angry. I did want to see her die at the end of the episode.
I think this goes to part of why I was so dissatisfied with this last episode – I’m willing to accept a lot as long as I feel there are stakes and the focus is on character. You’re asking me to swallow an awful lot if a contingent of Rebels manages to sneak into what is supposed to be a highly defended base, run amok, accomplish all of their goals, and escape without taking any casualties. They’re seriously challenged at no point. It’s the same problem with stormtroopers in general in Star Wars – if they NEVER hit anything, and their armor offers no protection, they’re not a threat.
I understand they’re there to fall down – but sometimes, you HAVE to let them hit something – otherwise there are no stakes.
I’ve rambled on a lot here, but there are a few more points that I want to make while they’re still fresh in my mind.
First – the precarious nature that Disney finds itself in. I think the best storytelling occurs when you’re forced to deal with constraints. I’m a firm believer that part of the reason that Star Wars succeeded was because Lucas was NOT able to do everything that he wanted to do. If I were in charge – I’d make the next movie a lot more stripped down. Less galactic stakes, more localized problems, more practical creatures, more empty landscapes. Bigger is not always better.
Secondly – regarding cheap looking effects and “goofiness” – one of the rules I try to abide by when evaluating a movie or show is to never judge it based on its effects, especially if it’s an older movie. You should be judging a show by the story it is trying to tell, and have the good grace to go with it when it can’t quite achieve the effect you know the creators want.
A good example of this is The Forbidden Planet – one of my all-time favorite movies, and one that I think kids today would probably laugh at and not want to watch because it looks so “fake.”
I know you might think this contradicts some of what I said before, and that’s why I wanted to address this – episode 2 of this series had some effects that were CLEARLY effects, but I loved them. My favorite example is the rooftops of the city – it’s clear we’re on a set barely above ground, the backgrounds and skyline are CGI. There’s a saurian-alien on the opposite rooftop from Obi-Wan firing a gatling-blaster at him, while a droid tries to flank him. This is goofy as hell, and I LOVE it. I don’t need it to be perfect – I need it to be fun, and to give me a little wink while it’s doing it.
However, I called out the rooftop chase with Reva. It worked for you, and I’m glad it did – but when I saw it, I laughed. I didn’t mean to, it just came out – and it wasn’t the good kind of laugh. Comparing those two shots, they’re both goofy, they’re both obviously effects, but I give one a pass but not the other – why? I think it’s because they took it a little too far, which is something I keep saying about the series. They accepted they could get away with something, and then tried to see if they could get away with a little more – I’ll accept a bit of cheekiness, but push it too far and you’re getting lazy.
About the mapping of the episodes to the original movies – I guess it’s possible, but the connection feels a little weak to me. I guess if it ends up being true, next week we should see Ben and the others take a massive beatdown as The Empire Strikes Back. I guess we’ll see.
Finally – I gave it a lot more thought today, about what could have improved this episode for me. I think I finally came up with an answer.
What made me angry with the episode was how the characters just waltzed in to the fortress, accomplished their goals, and then waltzed right back out. They made the Empire and the Inquisitors look foolish – as if they were no threat.
I will engage my fanfiction hat here, because you asked – but what if instead of making it to the hangar bay, the Fortress went on lockdown? When Ben gets Leia out of the chair, Reva calls for power throughout the base to be cut. All blast doors are shut, and sealed. The Imperials can’t get in to Obi-Wan, and they think he can’t get out – but he has a lightsaber.
He can’t fight through all of them, so instead he cuts his way back to where he was before – the tomb. Leia and Obi-Wan must hide amongst the bodies of the preserved Jedi, in the dark – with only an eerie orange glow to illuminate them.
Tala is held in the landing bay, and Reva makes her way to the tombs. The twist here is that the Inquisitors have used these bodies to attract and confuse Jedi. Now Ben basically uses the same trick. As Ben and Leia play hide and seek amongst the sarcophagi, the combined Jedi bodies in the space make it difficult for Reva to locate her prey. She taunts Ben with knowledge of what happened in the Jedi Temple as Order 66 was carried out, and how he ran away and told all of the Jedi not to return – which led to their slaughter. She preys on his guilt – but as she stalks, Vader arrives. Sensing his prey below, he hovers outside the Fortress in his TIE Advanced. He doesn’t care that the Inquisitors are there. He doesn’t care that there is an entire Imperial base here, or that the Jedi Bodies are here. He is going to level this fortress to kill Obi-Wan, and be begins firing.
The first missiles explode in the landing bay, killing Reva and the Fifth Brother – emergency alerts sound, and Imperials begin fleeing anyway they can. As the fortress takes fire, the T-47’s arrive, and Vader destroys them easily. Ben has no way off-planet – and he is still trapped in the tomb with Reva.
As she approaches their position, the orange glow is joined by the hiss of her igniting red lightsaber – Reva must defeat and capture Obi-Wan or face Vaders wrath – then we cut to credits.
Now – am I saying this is the only way I could be satisfied? Absolutely not – but in a serial, you want to have peaks and valleys, and near the end you always want to be ratcheting up the tension to the cliffhanger. You want to have STAKES. Killing Wade doesn’t cut it – but killing Tala and cutting off their escape, leaving them in a dark space with an Inqusitor who wants his blood, and a Sith Lord who will bring the entire fortress down on them would have you ITCHING to tune in the following week.
Well, this has been a really good discussion, and I want to thank you again for it. I want to save some energy for the article you’re preparing, but I’ll leave a few more comments before we call it a night:
“This last episode felt more to me like the Tala show than the Obi-Wan show, and the sheer number of stormtroopers that she took out really did make me angry. I did want to see her die at the end of the episode.”
I’m on the same page with you more or less until you got here. I think you should work on this. Off the top of my head, she quietly choked out the officer in uniform and then later took down the two stormtroopers next to her with her bare hands. Even if I forgot one or two, compared to the sheer carnage that Obi-Wan left, I think this is really nothing. Ben needed Tala to get in, but in the end he’s the one who rescues Leia and helps them fight their way out. It’s indubitably still the Obi-Wan show, but I understand people are frustrated at the stormtroopers looking generally incompetent. For instance, I think it was really stupid in Mando S2 when they had a Marvel-esque slapstick scene in the episode where Din helps Bo Katan capture the imperial ship. But the gag works, and short of having a platoon of Stormtroopers mow down our heroes like it’s Game of Thrones, I’m not sure there’s a good way to reverse this trope. I think it’s just best to think of the Stormtroopers like how George described the Droid Army grunts for Episode I. The idiot officers though I wouldn’t miss. I’d like more canny or straight-laced officers, which is actually what Tala happened to be, despite being a double agent. Meanwhile, I like Moff Gideon, but why take out his own troops? Then after Kuiil gets murdered in the last episode, Moff Gideon killing his own troops gets played off as a joke.
Anyways, there was one casualty: his name was Phil. Nah I mean Wade. The one casualty who, like Obi-Wan on the Death Star, died so they could escape.
I agree with what you said about constraints often being part of what makes something good, but I also don’t think it’s a universal rule. Constraints can lead to great solutions or terrible ones, worse still if they seemed unavoidable. If you’re watching The Offer, you would have seen in today’s episode how sometimes the right thing to do is to fight for your vision and push back against the constraint. Other times, being stubborn could have ended or hobbled the production. Ultimately we don’t know exactly how or why production or writing decisions were made until we hear it from the horse’s mouth, like we got a taste of in the recent Vanity Fair interview with Joby Harold. If we were sitting at Lucasfilm and you gave me your rough pitch, I’d say, “Great, but that’s in the future. Let’s focus on the here and now: making Obi-Wan work without breaking the budget.”
The point I got across from what you were saying about the goofiness of the rooftop scene with Reva vs the other rooftop scenes is that it boils down to personal impressions. You thought it looked goofy, I thought it looked fine, like Force-assisted parkour. I don’t think there’s much to break down there so I’ll leave it at that and move on to your rewrite of the latter part of the episode:
I think the lockdown idea and hiding in the crypt sounds cool. Had the episode had another 10 or 15 minutes, I think it probably could’ve been incorporated into it maybe right after Obi-Wan diverts the water down the hall. No way would I cut that scene. The only thing I might revise is Reva taunting Ben. If you were tired of how much she talked this episode during the interrogation, I don’t think you wanna hear her repeat her performance at the end of ep2. The thought of Vader wanting to destroy the entire base to murder Kenobi doesn’t make sense. It sounds awesome to behold, but that isn’t the same Vader that tortured Obi-Wan in ep3 before letting him get rescued. Vader wants Obi-Wan alive to torture and torment, and he wants any remaining Jedi hunted down and captured or destroyed. I don’t see him justifying to Palpatine the destruction of something like the Fortress Inquisitorious just to kill Kenobi, thereby ending the Inquisitors and inadvertently saving a bunch of remaining Jedi. He’s not that stupid, emotional or unhinged. That’s something Kylo Ren would do. But what your after with this exercise sounds reasonable and exciting in the scope of just this episode. Until we’ve seen ep5 and 6, though, we won’t know if it would’ve fit.
As it is now, though, I’m still itching for that next Vader and Kenobi showdown. Like Leia said on the Millenium Falcon, “it’s not over yet.”
Mike managed to ruin a useful review for a filler episode where no damage was done, but a lot of nothing happened, which is the least we can expect.
TL Read half of it.
Well, that was the plan. I never thought I’d see the day where a simple rescue operation featuring the main cast of your show is considered filler. Oh, and on top of that whole operation, the base is filled with dead Jedi encased in amber, including a fan-favorite from the Clone Wars? Reva nearly tortures a 10-year old girl, informing us about her far-gone character? Obi-Wan holds back the weight of the sea? A member of the Path died so they could escape? That’s all nothing? Not even curious about who those Jedi were? Ok.
Thanks for reading half. I almost didn’t read the whole review before I posted my disgust.
There were a few scenes where the computer graphics looked pretty bad, IMO. With some of the snowspeeders in particular. It’s funny, I just finished watching the episode. Then visited That Park Place and saw this article title and immediately laughed. Because I knew you’d say it was an episode about nothing…hah…that was basically my take away after just watching it too. Kind of like “Meh”.
Sucks that you didn’t enjoy this episode. To me, this was a different version of the workout/regaining the force montage that I was expecting. We went from Obi getting trounced by Vader and badly injured to the point where Obi looked like Obi fighting enemies, blocking blaster bolts, and escaping. I understand the cringe about a cloak hiding Leia…that was fairly bad…however, I enjoyed the episode. RIP Wade, we didn’t know you and you weren’t wearing a Red Cloak, so we didn’t know you were about to die. I enjoyed the Leia scenes and seeing that she has inner strength even at 10. Reva concerns me a bit, but still can go either way. I’m looking forward to next week. My whole family has enjoyed this and this week was no exception. I’m glad that I’ve stopped listening to the YT crowd on SW that I used to. As I said in a previous discussion, your last article is why I’m still at this site. I tended to feel like Mike in that it seemed you were just going for black pill…if you say you are not, great. We needed to start seeing Obi get back to using the force and this got us there, without him being a Mary Sue. My thoughts.
I’m not sure if you saw my reply to Mike up above, but I did try to address the Obi-Wan lightsaber skill bump in this episode. I mentioned in the review that we were finally seeing more confidence, but I didn’t make as big a deal out of it as I should have. That was a positive aspect, and I was happy to see it.
I actually LIKED the “Leia-in-the-cloak” gag. It’s the kind of silliness that I think does work in Star Wars, and it made me laugh when I saw it – (this time the good kind of laugh.)
I am glad that you and your family enjoyed the episode. I promise I’m not a guy who hates on Star Wars to hate on Star Wars. I don’t like an awful lot of stuff that Disney has done, and I think generally the quality has gone far downhill from the glory days – but I’ll always try to give them a fair shake.
I don’t know yet if I will ultimately like this series or hate it, but I’ll be honest with my feelings and tell you what I think.
Thank you for your reply!
Just to highlight for anyone coming by to read the comments, and since I didn’t comment on it myself, I did appreciate this clarification you made about how you approach your reviews:
“What I will say is that when I write a view, I’m speaking for myself and ONLY myself. I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind, or tell you what you should think. It’s a snapshot in time of how I felt when I watched it, and I reserve the right to change my mind down the road. I don’t think it’s fair to judge the series until I’ve seen all of it, so I’ll render my final judgement then.”
I’ll keep it mind for later. Thanks again.